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Viewing 1 to (22 Total) KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing |
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I'm getting a loud Buzz or Hum when inserting Midi jack into my KN7000 Midi OUT (this is to connect my Module and control it from the KN7000.
Midi IN and THRU don't seem to be affected.
It means I can no longer use my module with the KN7000.
I know you can get a USB cable that splits to 2 5 pIN DIN MDI Sockets - Midi IN and Midi out.
This is meant for hooking up to a computer but does anyone know whether it is possible to hook up to my module in this way.
Anybody tried hooking up to anything except a computer with this method?
Maybe Mr Tutt (Technics Engineer) may know the answer to this.
Have tried different midi cables but same result.
My Tyros 4 drives my modules ok through the same setup.
Quite happy to pay for a repair but no Engineers in my part of the country and, if the USB would do the job, then problem solved.
Thanks in advance.
Tony
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Posted on March 26, 2016 at 7:23 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 1055
Joined: February 2, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Tony,
The USB to MIDI cables won't do what you need. They are intended for linking to a computer and the computer then has divers that understand the signals sent.
This sounds as though the earth to the KN7000s socket is broken. It's probably a small fracture from the insertion and removal of the cable at some point (though I'm not an Engineer). It sounds like it should be easy to fix, maybe a local TV repair engineer could check it and ultimately fix it for you.
Best wishes,
Mike
Posted on March 26, 2016 at 9:08 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 164
Joined: May 28, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Belated Tony so apologies...and even then only to ask a question.
I'm thinking of midiing my KN7000 to a Korg Micro-arranger so that I can control/play the Korg with the keys of my KN7000.
Is this the same as what you call a module which you hook up?
Posted on July 26, 2016 at 7:36 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
Joined: September 7, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Roger,
Very similar except yours is a mini keyboard (with keys of course) and my module is just a box with all the workings (styles & sounds) inside but no keys (therefore taking up less space).
They are both hooked up by midi cables and controlled and played in exactly the same way.
I've played my KN7000 for many years with various modules midi-ed up to it mainly to mix and match sounds and add to the sound palette and always found it gives me more ways of putting over a tune.
I've used a number of different modules including a Solton (Ketron) MS40, a Roland BK 7M, and now a Ketron Midjpro.
I also have a Tyros 4 but the KN7000 is the love of my life and beats the Tyros hands down to my ears.
Technics certainly knew what they were doing in the old days.
Best Regards,
Tony
Posted on July 26, 2016 at 7:59 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 1055
Joined: February 2, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Tony,
Did you ever solve your buzzing issue? I was thinking about it and there might be a crafty way to solve it by plugging into a midi 2x2 interface such as the Midisport 2x2. The interface would just pass exactly the same midi signal from its IN port to one of its OUT ports but I was thinking that the electronics within might isolate the keyboard from the module as a side-effect, which might remove the buzz.
Not sure if it would work because I can't test it unless mine develops a buzz... (touches wood immediately!).
Roger,
You just need one midi cable going from your KN7000 OUT to the Korg IN and then use the MIDI Presets in the KN7000 to set the KN7000 as master, outputting to a 'sound module'. Might take a little trial and error but once you have it set up you can Save as a User Midi Preset (saved inside the keyboard's memory) so that you can recall the midi setup for the Korg anytime.
Be aware that when you then do a normal Save to SD Card, you need to go to Page 2 of the Save screens to add Midi Presets to the saved information, they don't get saved by default.
Be sure to route the audio out from the Korg in to the KN7000 so that your Korg will play through the KN7000's speakers. That way it really feels as though the sounds are 'inside' your KN when you're playing, even if you are routing out from the KN7000 to external amplification.
Have a go and let us know if you need more details.
Cheers,
Mike
Posted on July 27, 2016 at 1:25 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 1055
Joined: February 2, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
PS Tony, the main job of a Midi 2x2 interface is to let you control two modules from one keyboard at the same time. Could be useful to you anyway.
-------------------
This is a bit off-topic but for the interest of everyone - I've been watching the development of the BOME BOX, which is a very sophisticated sort of midi interface, and I've had some conversations with the developers. This box can do quite amazing things such as interfacing between old non-General-Midi instruments and new instruments, or interfacing with midi lighting, video synchronisation and many other things. The sky's the limit really because it has its own scripting language.
The point of the device is that it can interface between various pieces of midi kit that have different connectors, such as MIDI, USB or Ethernet, without a computer being connected. Theoretically it could provide a way of linking the KN7000 USB interface with any other midi equipment. Which is why Tony's original topic sparked these thoughts. However, I haven't proven that yet.
More importantly, it can definitely connect the KN7000 via MIDI cables to other devices that have a class-compliant MIDI USB connection.
Why is this relevant or important?
Well, up until now there was no way of doing this because the KN7000's USB connection is not class-compliant. Many modern devices are class-compliant but they don't have any midi connectors, only USB. So up until now they couldn't be connected to the KN7000 unless you routed via a computer.
I've been watching the Bome Box information for a couple of years with great interest and it has just gone on sale after an extended period of development.
So, what can it do, for example?
You could use it to connect your KN7000 to most new keyboards (many new keyboards don't have midi sockets, only USB).
You could control your KN7000 from a Midi controller keyboard that doesn't have midi sockets (many of them only have USB)
You could use a midi controller such as the Korg Nanocontrol 2 with your KN7000, without a computer linking them. Korg Nanocontrol 2 is primarily a set of midi sliders, so you could use it to move your digital drawbars for example. Or you could use it to have a physical slider controlling the volume of whichever parts you want. Or you could program buttons on the controller to select a particular bass pedal sound with one press. These are things that you couldn't do before unless you were carting a computer around with you.
Here's a link to the Bome Box website - Bome Box
It's not cheap at 200 Euros but it could be just the thing that someone is looking for. I'll certainly be saving up for one!
Best wishes,
Mike
Posted on July 27, 2016 at 1:54 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 164
Joined: May 28, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Mike
Yes I've cabled the KN7000 to the Korg microarranger recently but having done that when I play left hand chords on the KN7000 they sound one and a half semitones above what they should be and similarly above the righthand melody line.
So there is obviously a lot more to be done with the multiple 'pages' of settings for midi on the KN7000 but that is beyond me and pushing buttons at random is never a clever idea...chuckle.
Posted on July 27, 2016 at 9:15 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
Joined: September 7, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Mike,
You've certainly been busy with your research mate.
No, the buzzing problem is not yet solved - I know a guy who is good with a soldering iron but I'm a bit worried about an amateur who's never seen inside a keyboard, opening it all up - looks a bit complicated. Trying to get in touch with a guy who might know a local keyboard engineer.
The Bome box sounds very interesting - will look into that as it may be a solution.
As a matter of interest, I found on my 7000 in the midi section, a page which says computer connection and although I'm not very sure about this, the diagrams lead me to believe that I may be able to connect to my module through USB - I'll have to study the diagrams again.
Thanks for your interest and your helpful info about the Bome box.
Hi Roger,
Read about your problem with the notes transposing so I looked in my midi settings.
The only reference I can find to transpose is in the Input / Output settings which is a simple switch transpose on or off but it appears there is no setting to transpose up or down by a selected number of semitones I'm afraid. Never heard of this happening before.
Try looking at your Korg Midi setup in the midi receive section and also bear in mind that where you have your split point sometimes affects the midi notes which are played.
Best regards to all,
Tony
Posted on July 27, 2016 at 9:54 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 164
Joined: May 28, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Tony
Good thought - it could be differing split points. I'll have another go sometime although I'm not confident that I'll sort it because I find midiing one keyboard to another very complicated.
Posted on July 27, 2016 at 2:08 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 1055
Joined: February 2, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Roger,
The key to your octave issue is in a previous thread you posted below:
http://technicskn7000.com/kn7000-forums/technics-kn7000-discussion/...
To be specific (from your manual):
PAGE 8 - MIDI IN CONTROLS (2)
This is another page containing various MIDI IN settings, like note transposition for the Realtime tracks.
The transpose parameters are useful to many MIDI accordion players, whose MIDI interface may transmit on an unexpected octave.
UppOct (Upper Octave)
Octave transposition of data received on the MIDI IN for the Upper tracks. For example, if you select the +1 value, a received C4 will play a C5 on the Liverpool.
LowOct (Lower Octave)
Octave transposition of data received on the MIDI IN for the Lower track. For example, if you select the +1 value, a received C4 will play a C5 on the Liverpool.
OctIn (Octave In)
Enables/disables the octave transposition of data received via MIDI.
Hope that helps,
Mike
Posted on August 5, 2016 at 10:31 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 1055
Joined: February 2, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Ah, I just realised you said a few semitones, not octaves!
Surely one of the keyboards must have transpose turned on?
Thought I had solved that one 
Posted on August 5, 2016 at 10:35 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 164
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Good try....keep thinking.
Rog
Posted on August 6, 2016 at 10:02 AM
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Total Posts: 166
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Buzzing midi? Where is it buzzing? Have I missed a piece of text here? midi by its nature is isolated so you can generally connect as much and as many connections down a midi chain as you like with no adverse effects. If you use just 5 pin din leads there may be an issue but very unlikely. Im tempted to think that this may be an earth loop not created by midi itself but by the combination of leads and midi interfaces you may be using.
Midi out from the 7000 actually only uses pins 4 and 5 on the cable so anything else is spurious! If pin 2 is connected through in your cables this will connect together the earthing of the technics and the midi box which, depending on the internals of both the items may cause an earth loop and at some point you could hear this as a buzz. I would take a working lead and remove the connection to the middle pin at one end and see if this makes it better. You might also want to make sure that the outer screening can of the same din plug is also not connected to the braid of the cable.
Let me know how you get on! Sorry if you have already looked at this!
Regards
Dave
Posted on August 7, 2016 at 10:51 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your input but not sure I follow you regarding removing connection to middle pin - or the outer screening can - will get back to that later.
To start at the beginning, I have a Midjpro module (among a few others) which runs fine when connected, using 5 pin din midi cable, to Tyros4 midi out.
All my modules have run successfully from KN7000 for many years without problems - BUT NOW
When connected to KN7000 midi out, using the same cable, I get a buzzing noise from my speakers (and headphones).
If I connect as follows:- tyros4 midi out to KN7000 midi in no buzzing.
If I then add to this and connect from KN7000 midi thru to Midjpro, I get the buzzing again.
The KN7000 is thus producing this buzz through both transmit sockets, midi out & midi thru
The KN7000 midi in socket seems fine so it can receive midi correctly without any buzzing, but cannot transmit midi or pass thru midi without buzzing.
All the above happens in the same way, irrespective of which of my modules I use. Modules I own and have tried are Ketron Midjpro, Solton (Ketron) MS40, & Roland BK-7M.
I have no option but to use 5 pin din leads as the USB on the KN7000 is meant only for linking up a computer.
Regarding your suggestion with the midi cable, the cable ends are sealed sockets with no way of getting inside them so I cannot remove the connection to pin 2.
Best regards,
Tony
Posted on August 8, 2016 at 6:51 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 166
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Tony.
Couple of things.
Turn the volume up fully on the KN7000 and listen for hum from the speakers without playing anything and with no MIDI cables installed. If there is hum at that stage I would think you need to have the power supply and amp board in it rebuilt. The board is known to have various issues which don't always exhibit themselves in what I would call an easy to diagnose way and each one does something different. I do a global change to the board as and when these arrive in my workshop that involves replacing all the power supply capacitors, relocating all the voltage regulators onto a new internal heat sink mounted on the rear panel above the sockets and all the odd problems seem to go away. It is very important that they get this mod when used in anywhere warm as without it the whole keyboard will die and could well become scrap. I have several that have been shipped to South Africa where the average temperature would render these dead very soon!
The output amplifiers for the speakers are a primitive class D design which goes bang when the power supply fails which can be extremely expensive to repair as there are no spare integrated circuits available for the chopper stage and despite the output and driver stages being fine, without the chopper chip it will keep going bang!
The interconnection of things with MIDI should not cause any sort of hum so there is obviously something strange going on here. I daisy chained three keyboards including a 7000 a Technics sx-ps222 piano, a Yamaha ys100 and a Yamaha fs1 module and there was no hum whichever way I connected them. Because the interface is isolated, for there to be hum there would either have to be something wrong with the 7000 or the cables and as you do not have the means to open the cable then the internals of the 7000 are the only option!
Let me know if you find anything. The hum if it is there will not be all that loud. The way the thing is made means it will run perfectly OK as long as you don't want it to be anything more than a stand alone keyboard! Is the hum you hear from the headphone socket in the 7000 or do you connect all the keys and modules via an external mixer and amp?
Regards
Dave
Posted on August 15, 2016 at 5:48 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
Joined: September 7, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Dave,
There is no hum at all with no midi cables plugged in and also no hum with a midi cable plugged into MIDI IN - only hums with midi cables plugged into MIDI OUT or MIDI THRU.
I have already checked that the hum is not from the speakers (that's the first thing I checked when it started) . I normally play through a Hi-fi setup, most of the time with headphones routed from the Hi-fi amp and 20% of the time through my Hi-fi speakers, but have also tried listening through the KN 7000's headphone socket and through the KN 7000's speakers with the same results in every case.
However, I had not listened with the KN7000's volume on FULL so I have just tried that and there is definitely no hum from the keyboards own speakers or the keyboards headphone socket and also not from my Hi-fi speakers or Hi-fi headphone socket.
I have managed to do what I want by re-routing the midi cables so that they go from Tyros4 to the Midjpro module and then from module MIDI THRU to MIDI IN on the KN7000 .
Everything plays normally as long as the KN 7000 is the last instrument in the chain.
Unfortunately, this means that I cannot play without the Tyros4 as the the master keyboard which wasn't my original intention - originally wanted to use the module with either keyboard as the mood took me but, as I no longer gig, it's just a bit of an annoyance.
Sorry to have caused you so much thought and it does seem very strange bearing in mind what you have said but it seems it can be connected to nothing but the Midi Sockets or midi board inside the KN 7000.
Best regards,
Tony
Posted on August 15, 2016 at 7:20 PM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 166
Joined: January 12, 2015
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Tony.
As I say there are some very odd things with the 7000 but then that is also the case with the GA3 and FA1 organs, the KN3000, several of the PR piano's and ensembles and even the KN1000 is not immune! I find that many of the issues are a combination of age, and hence the deterioration of components, some advanced design that was not necessarily going to last with the components that were available some 15 - 20 years ago, and some sheer design failures where the issues of heat have not been properly addressed at the factory.
From your lack of hum on the audio / speaker / headphone points the fault may be due to the 5 volt regulator. Because most of the main voice board is digital running at 3.3 and 5 volts it does not become audio until it hits the DAC chips which are powered from a different supply so the digital circuits could be humming away merrily and you wouldn't hear it. But of course that same 5 volt supply feeds the opto isolators at the MIDI ports hence the hum. I have a feeling this explanation may be your problem but of course without actually opening the thing I don't think I can say much more.
Given that the 5 volt and 3.3 volt supply circuits are the same in just about all the Technics hardware and that every one is now getting a bit old and in need of a few new bits I would think this is where the problem really lives.
If you suddenly get a dead 7000 let me know and we can sort you a repair!
Regards
Dave
Posted on August 17, 2016 at 12:04 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
Joined: September 7, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Dave,
It's nice at last to have an idea of why my KN7000 is making this noise when using Midi out / Midi thru.
Many thanks for the thought you've expended on reaching this diagnosis.
If I lived much closer to you I would have dropped it in so that you could fix it but, as I can use it almost normally at this time, I will manage with it as it is although it's annoying to have to use another keyboard as the midi driver for my modules.
I am now past the time when I could drive long distances to previously unvisited places and my KN7000 is too precious to me to trust it with couriers who may damage it completely in transit.
Should it fail altogether then I will have to reconsider that option because I would be really bereft without it but, for the time being, I will see how it goes.
How I wish that I could go out and buy a brand new Technics KN7000 (or better still, a KN8000)
Thanks again Dave and best regards,
Tony
Posted on August 22, 2016 at 9:29 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 164
Joined: May 28, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Tony
I am currently in possession of a spare KN7000 in first class condition. If you would be interested in purchasing it I would sell it for £750.
Roger Mepstead
http://www.keyboardplayerextraordinaire.com...
Posted on August 22, 2016 at 9:48 AM
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United Kingdom
Total Posts: 18
Joined: September 7, 2014
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Re: KN 7000 -MIDI OUT socket buzzing
Hi Roger,
Thanks for the offer mate - I've thought long and hard about buying your spare KN7000 before making a decision and the thought was very tempting.
However, I've decided not to take it up because, although the board may be in very good condition, it's still a very very old board now and like mine, may soon start to show it's age with various problems arising and leaving me in the same position as I'm in at the moment.
I'll just have to manage with mine until it packs up altogether and then see if a repair is possible.
Doesn't say much for the other keyboard manufacturers when we want to hang on to a keyboard as old as this - they should all have left Technics for dead by now.
Just thought to myself that, despite the problem, my KN7000 is in far better condition than I am so taking a long term view, I shouldn't worry too much.
Thanks anyway Roger,
Best regards,
Tony
Posted on August 26, 2016 at 11:00 AM
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